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nerina
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:13 pm
Post subject: pragmatic factors
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Hello:
I'm hoping you can help me. What are the 10 pragmatic factors that affect oral & written language for ESL/ELL learners?
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djr33
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:19 pm
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I don't think there is a single answer to this-- this is probably a specific question assigned by your instructor for their method.

Of course we could guess, but that won't help.

It's probably in your book, or in your instructor's notes.
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nerina
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:28 pm
Post subject: Pragmatic Factors
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Hi Daniel:
One would think that there was an initial question, but there wasn't. The assignment is to compile a chart that includes 10 pragmatic factors that affect oral & written language. Does that help?
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djr33
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:12 pm
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You said "the" factors. If you're just asking for factors in general, I guess we can help.

I'm not quite sure what "pragmatic" means here. Does that mean "situational" or specifically about language usage such as politeness?

Politeness is one good example, either way.

As for situational things, those are easy, like urgency of the discussion, interest level, topic, etc.
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lx
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:10 pm
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I had the same stumble when I got to 'pragmatic', and I couldn't decide between:

pragmatic: Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

Or

pragmatic: Pragmatics is the study of the aspects of meaning and language use that are dependent on the speaker, the addressee and other features of the context of utterance, such as the the effect that the context of utterance, generally observed principles of communication and the goals of the speaker have on the speaker’s choice of expression and the addressee’s interpretation of an utterance.

I'm leaning more to the first, but it's one of those questions that's just too broad for me to even build up a mental scenario to even contemplate the whole set of factors.
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djr33
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:40 pm
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Oh, I didn't even get the "practical" reading. Good point.

But again, if it is the second reading, that's still ambiguous between the very wide "anything about language use in a situation" sense to the more narrow "discourse participant details" that might be desired in a more narrow sense. I'm not sure, for example, if the speaker's age is to be considered pragmatic, but it's certainly part of the "big picture," and not covered in semantics, so it's in broad pragmatics. I imagine an ESL class would lean toward that latter definition, but I don't know because "pragmatics" is fairly established as a field in linguistics....

So, let us know and we'll try to help Smile
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nerina
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:01 pm
Post subject: pragmatic factors
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Daniel Ross & Alxmrphi:

Thank you for responding. The assignment is to identify 10 pragmatic factors that affect oral & written lang development for second lang learners. I am not sure which way to go.
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djr33
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:59 pm
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We still can't answer this without a bit more information. At least take your best guess at this question:

Is the assignment about:
1) Pragmatics, (like Semantics, Syntax, Morphology, Phonology and Phonetics) -- for example, politeness, metaphor, intentions?
or
2) Real-world things related to language in general -- like environment, personality, need/motivation, and everything under (1)?
or
3) Useful skills-- like "use flashcards" and "buy a good dictionary" and "speak slowly when using hard words"?

If you don't know, then ask your teacher!!
Or ask yourself-- what has your class been about? Have you talked about the other things listed in (1)? If not, it's probably not that. Is this a theory class? If yes, then it's probably (1) or (2), not (3).


Without that information, you're asking us three different questions.
It's like saying "what is the only meaning of the word 'right'?" -- we can't answer because there are many answers.
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nerina
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:19 pm
Post subject: pragmatic factors
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Daniel Ross:
Thank you for responding. I am confused. I asked my professor again and this was her reply ..." There are purposes for language use absolutely, but also, what might the student do when delivering language? Especially if they are brand new to the language? These things might affect how the audience receives the message. Does that make sense? It's hard to give clues without giving this away, which I obviously can't do. I highly recommend looking at some Internet resources."

Does this response help you?? it didn't help me.
Can you make this understandable? please?

Thanks
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djr33
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm
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Your professor is unclear, and you can tell her that if you'd like -- although I wouldn't recommend confronting her on it Smile

I really have no idea what she's asking. I don't htink she's using the word "pragmatic" correctly, or at least not within any particular framework.

It doesn't sound like she means "Pragmatics" (the study of discourse), and it would be silly to ask that about just the "situation" if she means whether it's a noisy room (and they should speak louder) or if they shouldn't be drunk...

Well, I'd just answer the question in general if I was you-- what is important when talking?? So, things like politeness, speaking clearly, addressing your audience, etc.

If you can ask your instructor again, it's a very simple question-- ask her to define the word "pragmatic". Feel free to quote our definitions above-- it's like she's asking you to take a picture of "a bank" without telling you if she wants a picture of a money bank or a river bank... I see why you're frustrated.

Alternatively you could ask someone who is more into the whole ESL and second language side of things. Maybe they have some special concept of "pragmatics" that the rest of us don't know about... weird, though.
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nerina
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:56 pm
Post subject: pragmatic factors
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Daniel Ross:

Again, I thank you for your time. I was beginning to think it was me. Funny thing though, no one else has asked for clarification. I will attempt to ask another question of the professor. Have a wonderful weekend.
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